並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep45-%E9%9C%9E%E6%B5%B7%E5%9F%8E%E9%9A%8D%E5%BB%9F%E9%82%84%E8%83%BD%E9%98%B2%E5%B0%8F%E4%BA%BA-%E9%99%BD%E5%AE%85%E9%A2%A8%E6%B0%B4-%E5%8D%81%E4%BA%8C%E5%A4%AA%E6%AD%B2%E9%83%BD%E8%83%BD%E8%AE%93%E4%BD%A0%E9%81%A0%E9%9B%A2%E5%B0%8F%E4%BA%BA/id1553203615?i=1000569720352