並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep23-%E7%AE%97%E5%91%BD%E5%A5%BD%E5%A5%BD%E7%8E%A9-%E5%93%AA%E4%BA%9B%E5%8D%9C%E5%8D%A6%E6%9C%80%E6%BA%96-%E8%A9%B2%E7%9B%B8%E4%BF%A1%E8%87%AA%E5%B7%B1%E9%82%84%E6%98%AF%E7%9B%B8%E4%BF%A1%E5%91%BD%E7%90%86-%E8%B6%85%E6%BA%96%E5%BF%83%E7%90%86%E6%B8%AC%E9%A9%97%E7%9C%8B%E4%BD%A0%E7%9A%84%E6%84%9F%E6%83%85%E8%A7%80/id1567737830?i=1000539571163