並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep24-%E4%B8%AD%E5%85%83%E7%AF%80%E8%8B%B1%E6%96%87-%E9%9D%9E%E7%9F%A5%E4%B8%8D%E5%8F%AF%E7%9A%84%E9%AC%BC%E7%AF%80%E7%BF%92%E4%BF%97%E8%88%87%E7%A6%81%E5%BF%8C%E8%8B%B1%E6%96%87/id1554472241?i=1000532450831