並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E5%BF%83%E7%90%86%E5%B8%AB%E7%9A%84%E6%AD%A1%E6%A8%82%E4%B9%8B%E6%97%85/ep65-%E6%A1%8C%E9%81%8A%E5%9C%8B%E5%B0%8F%E5%9C%98%E9%AB%94%E4%B8%83%E6%AC%BE%E6%A1%8C%E9%81%8A%E5%BF%AB%E9%80%9F%E4%BB%8B%E7%B4%B9-xI-oJGSm_Uq/
